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Howitzer
08-15-2007, 02:08 PM
http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t13107-hunter_shot_rotation_illustrated/

What is Shot Rotation?

(note, some information is slightly changed due to 2.3 changes to aimed shot timing)

In its simplest terms Shot Rotation is the order in which you choose to fire your special shots. Many hunters in wow start off as ‘mad button mashers’ hitting whatever button doesn’t have a ‘little spinney clock thing’ on top of it.

What that ‘young hunter’ doesn’t understand is the damage they do can be greatly increased by just hitting the buttons in a different order.

Scope

This guide is intended to give a visual representation of the damage done by a hunter over time with the purpose of helping the level 70 hunter decide how to play with their current setup and improve their 'endgame'.

The Concepts

There are some building blocks that you need to understand before you can really get into thinking about shot rotation.

Cooldown: this is one you should be used to already, this is the time between casting any individual ability and casting that same ability again.

Global Cooldown: also known as GCD. This is the minimum time between casting one spell and any other spell.

DPS: Damage Per Second – hopefully self explanatory, your DPS is the amount of damage you do to an enemy in 1 second of time.

DPM: Damage Per Mana – this one is a more advanced concept, not because it is difficult to understand but because you’ve got to crack out a calculator to figure it out. DPM can also be thought of as efficiency.

DPM is important when dealing with any fight that has the potential to use all of your mana. Once you run out of mana, your DPS drops significantly.

Visually, the shots look like this

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z213/alexchesser/BasicShots.jpg


We’re going to skip the DPM of Aimed shot for now (you’ll see why later on) for now lets look at a few calculations. Assuming a hunter has 2000 Attack Power

First looking at the Serpent Sting, at maximum rank it does 660 Damage over 15 seconds, for 275 mana. The effective DPS of your Serpent Sting is 44. The DPM: 2.4.

Second we have Arcane Shot, (15% of Attack Power + 273) for 230 Mana. More difficult to calculate the DPS of the shot as it is instant … in this case I will calculate it based on the GCD it triggers (1.5s). The effective DPS of your arcane shot (with 2000 AP) is 382 the DPM: 2.49.

Thirdly, we’ll look at Steady Shot, (20% of Attack Power + 150 + Normalized Weapon Damage) for 110 Mana with a 1.5 second cast time and no ability cool down time. This shot improves based on the Bow you have & on a reasonably obtainable weapon like Valanos you have a an effective DPS of 411 with a DPM score of 5.60.

Serpent Sting: 44 DPS 2.4 DPM
Arcane Shot: 382 DPS 2.49 DPM
Steady Shot: 411 DPS 5.60 DPM

Finally looking at auto shot we know that it does weapon damage plus attack power plus arrow power (referred to as Normalized Weapon DPS) but since it costs NO it is your most efficient attack. The DPM is INFINITE.

Auto Shot: Normalized Weapon DPS *INFINITE* DPM

There are of course all the other ones to worry about but it’s more effort than we need … 2 things to take away from this

#1 – For doing Damage your Auto Shot is the most efficient
#2 – For doing damage Serpent Sting is your least valuable shot
#3 – For doing damage Steady Shot is your MOST valuable special shot.

So what are we ‘Shooting For’?

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z213/alexchesser/BetterShot.jpg

The ideal shot rotation would probably look something like the above picture over time you would shoot things in the following order.

Steady / Arcane / Auto / Steady / Kill Command (if available) / Auto Steady / Multi (if no Crowd Control)

[repeat]

There are a number of things that can go wrong with ‘the perfect shot rotation’ some of the biggest variables can’t really be controlled for. Human Reaction time & Lag can prevent you from getting it exactly right. As long as you know what you’re *TRYING FOR* you’re going to be miles ahead of the competition.

So what about the other guys?

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z213/alexchesser/FastShots.jpg

The above might seem obvious when you’re look at it but compare to what happens if you pick the same set of shots in a different order.

One Hunter told me he always liked to fire his instant shots first … they just feel faster so they’ve got to be better … *BUT* look at the space between Auto Shots. Any time the Auto Shot is not counting up is a waste of time on your most efficient shot.

The (sort of) Myth of a Fast Weapon
http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z213/alexchesser/FastBow.jpg

If you have a bad rotation you’re going to be doing less than your optimal damage. A slower weapon is more forgiving of bad rotation, a slower weapon is more forgiving of LAG and Human Reaction Time but isn’t necessarily *better*

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z213/alexchesser/BMFastRotation.jpg

Recall that the MOST efficient shot you have is Auto Shot. The second most efficient shot is Steady…

Imagine if your weapon & talents allowed you to ONLY use the two best shots that exist for a hunter.

You’d be working with the best possible damage per mana … which means you’ll still be shooting when others are out of mana. The reality of a fast bow speed (or so it would seem) is that if you adjust the shot rotation you can do the same or even more damage over the longer term.

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z213/alexchesser/TooSoon.jpg

One trap you can fall into with all that time before the Auto Shot goes off is starting a new Steady Shot too early… this is bad

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z213/alexchesser/AimedShot.jpg

Although aimed shot does a good amount of damage, it resets the Auto Shot timer.

In the time you are casting ONE Aimed Shot you could have cast

1. Auto Shot
2. Steady Shot
3. Arcane Shot

And you’d be most of the way through casting another Steady and Auto Shot

Essentially, shooting *ONE* aimed shot costs about the same as shooting almost *FIVE* other shots .. though it only does the damage of about 2. It does however retain its value for when you are initiating combat with a misdirect or whatever people to with it in PVP.

Summary

At the end of it all, Shot Rotation comes down to 2 things

#1 – Choosing the Most valuable shot you currently have available
#2 – Minimizing time spent not ‘casting’

If you’ve got a slow attack speed – you will have enough time to safely fit a Second Special into every second or third set of shots… that is less efficient in terms of mana consumption but does a lot of damage sooner.

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z213/alexchesser/BetterShot.jpg

If you’ve got a fast attack speed you’re going to leave out … well … basically everything but Steady Shot

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z213/alexchesser/BMFastRotation.jpg

If you count the number of ‘Damage Pointers’ you’ll see that the same number of attacks happens in each so both wind up being perfectly valid choices for shot rotation … but it does depend greatly on the gear that you actually have.
Back to Damage Per Mana (Rotation Cost)

If we look at the two ‘good’ rotations we’ve got one final concern which is the final cost.

Rotation 1 (Slow) =
Steady / Arcane / Steady / Steady / Multi (or Arcane with Improved Arcane Shot)
Which in Mana Cost is =
110 + 230 + 110 + 110 + 275 = 835

Rotation 2 (Fast) =
Steady / Auto / Steady / Auto / Steady / Auto / Steady / Auto
110 + 110 + 110 + 110 = 440

In the end we have the Marksman’s (Slow) Shot Rotation hitting 9 times in about 10 seconds for the cost of 835 mana. In that same amount of time, the BM (fast rotation) hunter is hitting 9 times for the cost of 440 Mana. There are a number of talent choices that alter this Efficiency for example would reduce the cost of the slow rotation to about 750, many Survival Talents reduce the cost of this by some factor that I’ve not actually worked out (If I were to estimate it would reduce the cost by about 40% of your crit rating = 10% with 40% crit).
Rotation Cost ... possibly available in future.


This is an informational compliation of the Marksmanship playstyle, specifically, and is a work in progress. I hope you enjoy!

Introduction

Most Hunters, (and rightfully so), specialize into Beast Mastery and / or Survival for maximum DPS potential or benefit of the overall raid. The Hunter class itself is quite unique, (screwed), in that we are the only class that has 3 very different ways of playing via the 3 talent trees, and yet we are only offered 1 type of armor set for PVP and PVE raiding. Most of you know that the requirements for hit rating for BM and MM builds do not apply to the Survival tree because of surefooted, nor does the survival or BM tree rely more on INT stats and/or MP5 as the MM tree does. The amount of agility on gear to a MM hunter, (while still very important), is not "AS" important as it is to a Survival spec Hunter because of Expose weakness, the LR talent, and the flip-flop of higher scaling RAP in MM vs higher scaling AGI in Surv. Both specs, very different, require different tweaking of stats, gear, consumables, and overall playstyle. Because of these variables throughout each talent tree we have to make informed decisions on what types of gear to select, what kind of shot rotations we will use, what type of group make-up we'll shine in, what we can offer to a raid, PVP, and so on and so forth.

What I will discuss here specifically isn't so much number-crunch, but a more hands-on approach to explaining the playstyle of Marksmanship in PVE and PVP assuming you are a fresh level 70 Hunter.

Itemization & When to go Marks?

The success of the MM spec is definitely gear dependant. The primary stats you want to look for when crafting, looting, or purchasing gear is as follows, (in order of importance):

1) Hit Rating (if not maxed)
2) Agility
3) Crit Rating
3) Attack Power
4) Intellect
5) Stamina
6) Mp/5

If your hit-rating is max or damn near to it you should not be afraid to spec into MM and try it. While the DPS potential from T4 content to T5 will not equal the damage output of BM spec, the MM tree will begin to show its prowess beyond this point and especially in PVP. The choice to go Marksman for you should be solely based on what your RAP / CRIT / HIT is currently at, (or what your raid really needs). If you're hovering below 2000 Ranged attack power as Marksman and have less than 120 ~ or so hit rating (not yet capped) and less than 20-23% crit I would re-consider your gear choices and stick with either a Hybrid MM/SURV build (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=cZVqbRVzhekochhbtcMh)(or go with Beast Mastery (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=cebM0gxowuVoVxbRV) until you raise the bar in terms of gear.

You will notice that T4,5,6 and all off-set pieces are VERY tailored to the Marksman spec. Why Blizzard did this? No one really knows. What I do know is that if you like the MM spec, you'll probably love T6. T5 is very nice for Beast Mastery, but still has sufficient power to perform with MM quite well. The benefit of Marks Hunters seeking upgrades is they do not have to cringe as much with a heavier INT number on items since it translates a portion into RAP. On the other hand the Survival hunter will try to stay away from that more since they don't use nearly as much mana from ToTH and get no benefit from Careful Aim. You just have to remember that no other tree is as mana-intensive as Marks is, you have to balance yourself between AGI/INT/STAM and don't neglect any 1 stat too much.

You will NOT get exceptional performance with sub-par gear as a Marks Hunter like you would with Beast Mastery. Leave that misconception at the door. Big numbers do NOT equal big DPS.

Choosing Your Talents

Recommended Marksman builds for PVE:

1) 7/48/6 Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=cxbZVVwRVzGestch)
---< or >---
19/42/0 Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=ctbM0xLZVqbRVzhesx)
---< or >---
15/43/3 Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=ctbM0xZVVdRVzhest0h)

This build focuses on DPS keeping raiding in mind as well as occassional PVP. I really enjoy having builds that will perform well in both cases to avoid constant respecs without gimping myself in either. Nothing is worse than constantly respecializing your talents and its a quick way to become broke. Both specs assume you have ample hit points, hit gear, don't care for trapping, savage strikes, or monster-slaying. Some people will argue that monster-slaying should be a part of a PVE build... I will tell you that the only damn thing you'll find this useful on is Gruul. You'll find Humanoid Slaying useful in PVP as well as PVE in SSC / TK.

Recommended Marksman builds for PVP Arena:

2) 0/45/16 Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=cZE0VoEzhxstchhhu)

This build takes away lots of sustained DPS potential in exchange for survivability and is built to annoy the opponents as much as possible. You don't have the mana conservation talents and sacrifice that for stuns, dazing, trapping, hit points, improved SS/Viper, and higher use of Arcane shot. I personally never use a spec like this because I am not hardcore into the PVP Arena scene. I'd only say blow your respec cost on this build if you're dedicated to arena play.

Recommended "Hybrid" build for PVE:

3) 0/36/25 Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=cZVqbRVzhekochhbtcMh)
---< or >---
4) 0/31/30 Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=cZVqbRVzhxoZchhbtcMhV)

These two specs are excellent for Hunters that enjoy the playstyle of Marksmanship but do NOT have the gear to support it. It improves your gaps in gear in the following areas:

a) Lack of Hit-Rating
b) Lack of Crit percentage
c) Lack of Hit Points

While you will not have as much attack power as a full MM spec and will not have bigger numbers you will have a much higher chance to hit and will crit much more often. Both of these builds play similar but obviously the 31/30 build will shine better with a higher amount of agility while 36/25 will be better if you have a high INT count on your gear. I would say choose one of them depending on where you stand in terms of itemization. You can use these talent specs until you find yourself comfortable enough to move to a full marks build. The choice is yours. Obviously some of the talent choices are personal preference. You're always going to have a little "filler" in terms of early tier survival talents like savage strikes vs imp. wing clip or entrapment. All this is up to YOU. But the core abilities related to DPS shouldn't change.

The Marksman Shot Rotation

This is such a common topic that is asked so often its mind-boggling. The problem isn't that it is complicated, the problem is that Hunters go from level 1-61 using a certain set of shots and abilities and their world is turned upside-down at 62 with the introduction of steady shot. A lot of Hunters break down and choose the easy route of macroing steady shot and auto shot mixing in Kill Command. This is not the way a marksman hunter will play in PVE.

Rotated shots (mana permitting):

a) Arcane Shot
b) Steady Shot
c) Multi-Shot

The "best" speed for Marksmanship is 2.9-3.0 speed. Gone are the days of 3.4 speed bows, (oh how I miss Ashjre'Thul, Crossbow of Smiting). Having said that, you are going to have to start a fight with either an Auto Shot, or a multi-shot, or Arcane shot, it really doesn't matter and it all depends on if you can use multi at the time or not. We still, to this day, use Multi-shot as a primary dps ability for single-target DPS. This is because as a Marksman you have 6 talent points invested into the skill and it will do more damage than any other shot you have except Aimed shot which isn't used in shot rotations. It is a vital component to MM DPS. If you followed my talent build you will have 4 points in Improved Arcane shot which will lessen the gap of "dead-time" that you are waiting for a shot to come off cooldown.

VIDEO Example of long-fight using MM shot rotations:
Stage6 � Marksman VS Illidan�-�Video and Download���HowitzerFubar (http://www.stage6.com/user/HowitzerFubar/video/1752492/Marksman-VS-Illidan)

The trick to proper shot rotation is always having an arrow coming off your bow at a 1:1.5 ratio. NOTE: You are not always going to be firing off 2 specials in between each autoshot cooldown, there is always going to be a bit of variation. What you'll generally see is as follows: I usually start off with either a multi or arcane, allow autoshots to fire and then rotate steadys in between using cooldowns whenever they are up. (If you time things correctly you'll have points where you'll notice 3 shots hitting almost at the same time)

Variations are fine but the general idea is you'll be using 1:1.5 i.e. - A shot rotation with more than 1 special per 1 Auto Shot, or 3 specials per 2 Auto Shots, (you get the drift). This changes based on your latency, your bow speed, your mana consumption, the duration of a fight, and so on. YOU have to dynamically choose which shots will work and when.

Example 1: I am not going to be spamming multi-shot and arcane shot when I am at 20% mana. I will, without thinking, immediately switch to a 1:1 Steady shot / Auto Shot rotation knowing that if I do not I will simply go OOM and my DPS will dwindle to nothing.

Example 2: My Arcane shot, Multi-shot, are on cool-down with less than 2 seconds before one of them will refresh. Auto shot is also on its very short delay. I have a choice of "waiting" for a shot to come up or fire, or, I can use my Silencing Shot for 50% damage output at the cost of mana. Yes, I have many times used Silencing shot as a very fast "filler" before repeating my shot rotation, its one of the nice things Marksmen have vs other builds, an extra instant-shot every 30 sec when needed. While this doesn't happen often, it definitely helps fill the gap if necessary.

In closing, you never want to be waiting for something to do. You will always have to monitor your cooldowns, (I recommend getting Cooldown Counter (http://files.wowace.com/CooldownCount/CooldownCount-r55826.3.zip)), and manage your mana depending on what type of group setup you have.

Haste Gear, Yes or No?

I've tried using large amounts of haste gear with a Marks build and I'd advise against it. It really can screw up your shot rotations. It can be hard enough to juggle your Improved Aspect of the Hawk proc in-addition-to your Rapid fire. When you factor those in and add haste gear to the equation it turns into a mess. The other problem with haste gear is that its iLVL points budget is way-too-high for what its worth. You're better off getting gear with crit/agi and other stats that will benefit you more than the haste on an item. Overall, if you're Marks, forget about haste gear beyond what your talent gives you, and, of course, the only exception, is the Dragonspine Trophy trinket. Using that item is good if you have no access to end-game trinkets like Tsunami Talisman or Madness of the Betrayer.

Ideal Group Composition

Since you're Marksman, you're pretty damn useless to the majority of others grouped with you considering the Trueshot Aura is stuck at a dismal 125AP. If you group with a rogue or warrior they might appreciate it, but who needs them? I don't. =) You want to be grouped with a Shadow Priest, Feral Druid and/or a Shaman. While it is unrealistic to think you'll have all 3 in a group, it is very important that you at least get yourself a Shadow Priest. Running out of mana as a MM is horrible. The only way to help yourself offset mana use is mana oils, fel mana potions, and timing the use of them right when you're down 3200 mana, not when you're almost dry.

I've found that the 5% crit bonus from a Feral Druid translates to much more damage potential than a shaman dropping Grace of Air, (as MM). Some will definitely prefer the pairing of a Shaman+Shadow Priest over this because of Mana Tide, GOA, etc, and overall better mana regen. Its really going to end up being in the hands of the raid leader and how they choose to manage grouping of Hunters, (which as you all know isn't always pretty). :)

Buffing Priorities, Consumables & Threat

You're going to have threat problems, this is a given. Your hits are going to be huge, fast, and powerful. Consider yourself a ranged MS warrior, because thats pretty much what a MM hunter is. You need Salv, believe it or not, and you're going to want to prioritize Blessing of Might over Kings for DPS if you don't have the option of having both. Using Omen / KTM is a must. Managing your threat levels is just as important as managing your shot rotations. Nothing can aggrevate someone more in a raid than a stupid Hunter that constantly pulls aggro. You will, more than survival or BM, be the master of Misdirection. No other spec will build more threat on those initial 3 shots than a Marks Hunter, and thats a GOOD THING! Switch targets often in multiple mob scenarios on trash if you have several tanks. If your Feign Death resists, hold off, or move to a new target before starting up again.

As far as consumables go, you're going to want to use the following in order of importance:

Flasks / Elixirs:

1) Flask of Relentless Assault or:
2) Elixir of Major Agility + Draenic Wisdom / MP5 Elixir
3) Ravager Dogs
4) Hit-Rating food (if not capped)
5) Mana Oils on weaponry
6) Blackened Sporefish

Potions:

1) Fel Mana (expensive)
2) Super Mana Potions (at the least)

Hunters that spend their money on consumables, (and I mean ammunition, too), are the ones that are going to shine and stick out from the crowd. You all know that Hunters are the easiest class to play, hardest to master. They are also the easiest class to hate because you can so-easily make life miserable for a raid or small group.

Tips & Tricks

1) Viewing distance, in my opinion, is absolutely vital being a Hunter. It doesn't matter whether its PVP or PVE. The more information you have on your screen around you the better off you're going to be at making fast decisions and t his really goes for any Hunter build not just MM related. I recommend typing the following in-game: /console CameraDistanceMaxFactor 4 or go get oTweaks, makes CVar commands ez-mode.

This is a beautiful, (not really well-known), option to really increase your zoom ability and I've found it invaluable, especially in PVP.

2) Hot Key usage, I will go under the general assumption that some people do not customize their hotkeys much. Instead, playing with default controls or minimal customization. To this, as a Hunter, I'd have to say is a no-no. My current hot-key configuration is as follows, just for reference/example:

Keys:

Q - Initiates AutoShot
E - Scatter Shot
F - A macro that ties together Raptor Strike / Mongoose Bite (in case Mongoose is active for use.)
i.e. -
/cast Raptor Strike(rank)
/cast Mongoose Bite(rank)
G - Feign Death
1 - Silencing Shot
2 - Arcane Shot
3 - Steady Shot
4 - Multi-Shot
5 - Aimed Shot
Numbers 6,7,8,9, are bound to Q,E,F,G
Numpad: "+" bound for a macro tied into Blood Fury + Rapid Fire + Any active AP trinkets.
Numpad: "-" bound to Serpent Sting, only really used to annoy Rogues

Mouse Configuration:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31n6rF2AU3L._AA247_.jpg

Middle Mouse press - Pet Attack
Left Mouse front - Wing Clip
Left Mouse rear - Hunter's Mark

(yes, thats my mouse, go get one, they rock. Seriously.) RAZERŪ DIAMONDBACK (http://www.razerzone.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=9).

Mouse-Turning / Mouse-look: Using WASD to turn is a big no-no as a Hunter, (hell, I'd say for any class). You should be doing jump-turns, and other fast movements with the use of the right mouse button for turns. If you're not used to doing that, get used to it. Hunters that use W,A,S,D or the arrow keys to turn should really try their best to break that habit.

In the end, everyone has their own setup and what they've become accustomed to over the years of playin WOW as a Hunter. But the most important thing is to have your main abilities very easily accessible at your fingertips so you can use them at any moment without having to glance, click, or wonder where the skill is, because if you do, you've already lost a fight, or screwed up in a raid.



---- Will add more later.

Conclusions

In terms of Damage Per Mana - Steady Shot is the best one available to us. In terms of Damage per second Steady Shot comes out ahead when measuring arcane against the Global Cooldown is causes (though there is a case for Arcane shot if there is "free time" available for it on a slower weapon.)

It seems that the new ideal shot rotation would be based on an Auto Shot speed that allowed a hunter to do a constant rotaion of *JUST* auto and steady ... with minimal time in place to account for Lag and Autoshot Hidden cast time (0.5 s).

Torfee
08-15-2007, 07:31 PM
You have entirely too much time on your hands....

When do people start buying trees again?

Varamathras
08-19-2007, 10:49 AM
atleast some of us appreciate the time he puts in :P

Xyebane
08-19-2007, 11:36 AM
yo do you ever throw in concussion shot for the extra steady shot damage?

Howitzer
08-19-2007, 03:48 PM
yo do you ever throw in concussion shot for the extra steady shot damage?

no because Conc shots eats up a GCD.

Etspiritus
08-20-2007, 07:44 AM
yo do you ever throw in concussion shot for the extra steady shot damage?

silly Manbearcatsealbird

gizmo
08-30-2007, 08:45 AM
Hello from germany!

Thanks for the "bible".
I've seen an video of you howitzer (ROSHowitzer07).

"Reliquary of Souls - From a Marksman's Perspective"
One question: Which spec do you use in the video?

Howitzer
09-01-2007, 01:51 PM
Hello from germany!

Thanks for the "bible".
I've seen an video of you howitzer (ROSHowitzer07).

"Reliquary of Souls - From a Marksman's Perspective"
One question: Which spec do you use in the video?

10/45/6 markmanship.

Styhl
11-14-2007, 12:59 PM
afternoon from Stonemaul, Howitzer i have a couple questions?
1. what shots do you use when you fire your 3 for Misdirection if you lead it off?
2. if you have a mms build why have you decided to stack your gems out with AGI instead of AP? i'm a mms hunter and i was trying to figure out what advantage this gives you other then some more crit wouldn't it affect your dps more stably with AP gems?


oh and on a side note.. are you going to redo your bible since aimed shot has a 3 sec cast and an MS strike attached?

Thanks Styhl- Stonemaul.

Kontested
11-14-2007, 03:03 PM
The shot rotation bible post was actually just reposted here from the EJ forum as linked at the top, and in terms of PvE dps the changes made to aimed shot did nothing. To be effective again in PvE dps aimed shot would not reset the auto shot timer like it did Pre-BC. There is another post on our forums where this was asked also.

http://www.fusion-guild.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1285

Etspiritus
11-14-2007, 04:06 PM
kontested does he pay you in gold or real money? >.>

Kontested
11-14-2007, 06:15 PM
lol I just get bored between classes sometimes...

Also, to answer the 2nd question regarding gems take a look at this post:

http://www.fusion-guild.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1270

The general idea is that Agi gives you a bit of everything, and is increased by % talents and Blessing of Kings.

doogen
12-30-2007, 09:16 AM
Alright, so im a newbie with raiding. Im a 41/20 BM hunter, i was wondering what shots do i use for my rotations. i just do steady shot>autoshot>steady>autoshot + kill command whenever available. is that just wrong.

Please help.

Howitzer
12-30-2007, 11:36 PM
Alright, so im a newbie with raiding. Im a 41/20 BM hunter, i was wondering what shots do i use for my rotations. i just do steady shot>autoshot>steady>autoshot + kill command whenever available. is that just wrong.

Please help.

You are going to have to start a fight with either an Auto Shot, or a multi-shot, or Arcane shot, it really doesn't matter and it all depends on if you can use multi at the time or not. We still, to this day, use Multi-shot as a primary dps ability for single-target DPS. This is because as a Marksman you have 6 talent points invested into the skill and it will do more damage than any other shot you have except Aimed shot which isn't used in shot rotations. It is a vital component to MM DPS. If you followed my talent build you will have 4 points in Improved Arcane shot which will lessen the gap of "dead-time" that you are waiting for a shot to come off cooldown.

The trick to proper shot rotation is always having an arrow coming off your bow at a 1:1.5 ratio. NOTE: You are not always going to be firing off 2 specials in between each autoshot cooldown, there is always going to be a bit of variation. What you'll generally see is as follows: I usually start off with either a multi or arcane, allow autoshots to fire and then rotate steadys in between using cooldowns whenever they are up. (If you time things correctly you'll have points where you'll notice 3 shots hitting almost at the same time)

Variations are fine but the general idea is you'll be using 1:1.5 i.e. - A shot rotation with more than 1 special per 1 Auto Shot, or 3 specials per 2 Auto Shots, (you get the drift). This changes based on your latency, your bow speed, your mana consumption, the duration of a fight, and so on. YOU have to dynamically choose which shots will work and when.

Example 1: I am not going to be spamming multi-shot and arcane shot when I am at 20% mana. I will, without thinking, immediately switch to a 1:1 Steady shot / Auto Shot rotation knowing that if I do not I will simply go OOM and my DPS will dwindle to nothing.

Example 2: My Arcane shot, Multi-shot, are on cool-down with less than 2 seconds before one of them will refresh. Auto shot is also on its very short delay. I have a choice of "waiting" for a shot to come up or fire, or, I can use my Silencing Shot for 50% damage output at the cost of mana. Yes, I have many times used Silencing shot as a very fast "filler" before repeating my shot rotation, its one of the nice things Marksmen have vs other builds, an extra instant-shot every 30 sec when needed. While this doesn't happen often, it definitely helps fill the gap if necessary.

In closing, you never want to be waiting for something to do. You will always have to monitor your cooldowns, (I recommend getting Cooldown Counter), and manage your mana depending on what type of group setup you have.

Jahrakal
01-20-2008, 05:19 PM
Hello all. First my english is very bad sorry for this. Im a Marksman Hunter and i didnt understand your Hunter Guide 100% cause my english suck.

But that is my rotation Auto-Steady-Multi-Auto-Steady-Auto-Steady-Arcane-Auto and so on

You say in your Guide that you use your specials when they are simply ready.

But whats with that part AUTO-STEADY-AUTO. There is no time for 2 specials (only Steady) or i will Delay the Autoshot/Cast and will lose dps or not?

The Marksman Shot rotation tels the same thing or not? But why you say that you use instant your specials when they are ready?

At that part AUTO-STEADY-AUTO i can use most time a arcaner maybe a Multi too but i dont do this. Im be afraid to delay my Autoshot/Cast and to lose Dps.

Do i something wrong?

And again sorry for my bad english and i hope you understand me.

Xyebane
01-20-2008, 05:43 PM
http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z213/alexchesser/BetterShot.jpg

Shoot when the graph says to shoot to optimize your DPS.

Jahrakal
01-20-2008, 05:54 PM
So my Rotation is good/right?

Auto-Steady-Multi-Auto-Steady-Auto-Steady-Arkaner-Auto...

Its the same rotation like the graph. But what mean Howizter witeh "use Your specials when they are up"

At that part Auto-Steady-Auto ist most time 1 of the 2 Specials up (Multi or Arcane) but i dont use them at that part to dont delay my Auto.

Im Realy Hope you guys understand me:-)

Kontested
01-20-2008, 06:20 PM
The auto / steady / auto / steady (auto / special / auto / special if mana isnt an issue) is the fast shot rotation, mostly used as BM or while you have a major haste effect running (Rapid Fire, Bloodlust, DSt).

With the recent changes to specials and autoshot it is slightly harder as Marks / SV to maintain a 1:1.5 (2 autos : 3 specials) rotation because if you are slow at all either starting the steady shot or with the 2nd special after steady shot fires the autoshot now takes priority over the special. Auto shot clipping through special really dosnt happen anymore unless you horribly time your steady shot, starting it more then 1-1.5secs after your autoshot fires.

If you're having problems the first thing I would suggest is a shot timer like bigtrouble http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info5192-BigTrouble.html (also available through acemods). When you're first learning the 2 things to focus on are starting the steady shot w/in the first .5secs of autoshot firing, and mashing the special you intend to use after the steady shot cast has started....the more you practice the less you have to mash. It really comes down to reaction time and latency, reaction time can be learned and improved of course but latency you are generally stuck with. If you have really terrible latency then it might see a lot of improvement specing beast and using a 1:1 ratio.

To sum up what I think you're asking, focus on perfecting the start time on your steady shot. If you're able to consistantly do that you shouldn't have to worry about clipping your auto shots.

Seymour
02-05-2008, 09:34 AM
The german forum is full of macros like this one:

#showtooltip steady shot
/script UIErrorsFrame:Hide()
/cast !auto shot
/cast [target=pettarget, exists] Fass!
/cast steady shot
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()

I wonder if using this macro (if one should use macros at all) would result in more dps than the old "castsequence" - macro?

Short testings on dr. boom results in a "strage" behaviour, as it fires 2 steadys for one auto, and sometimes two shots at a time.

When using castsequence, its something like 50% steady, 50% auto. and when using the above macro, its like 70% steady, 30% auto.

My ping is stable at around 30-40ms, so I wonder what is your opinion ?

Kontested
02-05-2008, 11:24 AM
The issue is still being debated on various hunter forums right now, the most logical explaination that I've read comes from this post:

http://elitistjerks.com/614206-post2708.html

Which says that what we're seeing is the GCD being started when auto is being cast and not steady, and allowing the 2nd steady to go off with only minir clipping and not totally clobbering your auto like it used to. The actual dps increase that you're going to see mostly depends on

1. the bow you are using (specifically its speed)
2. How badly you were clipping autoshots before the change

Most of what I'd read about people seeing really strange behavior went away after the hotfix that came out a few days after the patch. Personally I'm a little hesitant to get to comfortable and throw all of the tested theorycrafting out about 1:1 and 1:1.5 rotations based on and undocumented and possibly unintentional mechanics change....but then again its hard to say when/if blizz will get around to 'fixing' it.

Xyebane
02-05-2008, 12:25 PM
Ive been trying to clip autoshots on my hunter and simply cant seem to since the change personally. It could be that im simply too awesome but we've all seen me on illidan so i'm throwing that theory out the window.

Kontested
02-05-2008, 02:02 PM
Its not that difficult to do it with steadyshot if you start it like .7 secs before your autoshot fires. Usually if you do it in that .5 window before though it will force the autoshot first.

Molfsonand
02-06-2008, 01:11 PM
As a 0/31/30 spec, how much agil ect. should I have for it to be effective? I currently have 2210 ap (w/ hawk and Trueshot) and about 37% crit, in my pve gear, and currently using Legionkiller, not sure if that helps at all but to get a better look at gear ect, here's my armory: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Turalyon&n=Molfsonand .
Going to try the 0/31/30 that Howi put up, when I log on today to get Barrage, and is Deterrence really needed? The last time I had it I never seemed to use it, other than that I like the build.