Progression builds

[Punkrocker]

With Ulduar being released tonight, I've been toying with a couple of builds specifically for progression content that favor survivability slightly more than maximum dps. Note that these builds would only be used for the first couple of weeks while learning encounters, after which we'd move to maximum dps builds.

HAT spec: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fhbbZ0gc0x0xZxbcbIhzdVkAco

Note that I've moved 3 points out of Master of Subtlety into Cheat Death and Enveloping Shadows. I've also moved 3 points out of Ruthlesness and put 2 of them into Blood Spatter and an additional point into Aggression. This should provide a little better survivability without sacrificing too much damage.

My second spec will likely be a standard Mutilate build.

TLR: I assume you will still be combat on one of your talent builds to provide Savage Combat debuff. I think we'll end up with an Arms warrior, so you should have flexibility to spec either HAT or Mutilate on your 2nd talent sheet.

Almahym: I don't know what build you prefer. I'm willing to adjust and spec whatever is needed, so I can go combat if both of you end up wanting to be Mutilate.

[Thelastrace]

Yeah I am eyeing Combat (http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogue=0050200000000000000000000000252050050135010 0231025012515300200030000000000000000000&glyph=252822000000&version=9767) and Mutilate (http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogue=0053230053501005201033013510050050030000000 0000000000005020000000000000000000000000&glyph=202818000000&version=9767)

[Punkrocker]

TLR, there's been some discussion on EJ favoring this combat build:

http://ptr.wowhead.com/?talent=f0eb0xhZMgVoxcxoru0xRtb

We need to do some testing. The changes to poisons may push this over the top of the 7/51/13 that you and I have been running. I'm not sure I buy it though, I'd like to get a couple of weeks of testing side by side to see.

[Thelastrace]

I don't buy that either. I very rarely if ever see DP drop off a target. Loosing the energy from Relentless Strikes, and the ignoring armor seems like too much a loss.

[Punkrocker]

It's not about DP dropping, it's about the increased damage from IP on your mainhand with additional chances to land it.

[Thelastrace]

I keep forgetting about the PPM for poisons being changed. In that case then yeah looks like IP/deadly with that build may work about better. The reason being the build I posted and the one we had been running with has the 5 wasted talent points just to snag serrated blades. I think I may try the on you posted.

[Almehym]

Basing my opinions on the latest simcraft (which Mavanas says has most of the bugs worked out at this point) and this post: 3.1 Rogue Changes Thread (http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t45381-3_1_rogue_changes_early_preview/p62/#post1190330)

I'm planning combat as my first spec and HAT as my secondary, depending on how damage, raid longevity and raid composition end up.

I may end up replacing my combat spec with Mutilate at some point down the road, but that's most likely after the glyphs get discovered, which may be after progression is wrapped up.

Edit: Combat (http://ptr.wowhead.com/?talent=f0eb0xZMgV0xcxoruzxRtx), HaT (http://ptr.wowhead.com/?talent=f0ef0exoVboIzAo0xV0hZxb)(With the option to switch points for survivability as Punk mentioned) and Mutilate (http://ptr.wowhead.com/?talent=f0ef0exoVboIzAo0xV0hZxb) (Mutilate might have points from either TtT or Murder swapped for Fleet Footed also)

[Punkrocker]

Didn't Aldriana do an analysis on Master Poisoner vs. TtT and determine that they were pretty much interchangeable as well?

About Murder: I thought its value was going to be reduced slightly in Ulduar. Looking at the encounters, it's actually going to remain useful on 9(?) out of the 13 bosses? Mimiron, FL, Yogg, and XT-002 appear to be the only ones that aren't tagged as "murderable", unless I goofed somewhere. I'd be more inclined to dump points from Murder to put into Fleet Footed than use them from TtT, but either way you are slightly gimping dps for the extra speed. I think it's less of a loss to put a runspeed enchant on your boots.

Just from PTR runs, I found HAT (with shadowstep) to be better for mobility on Iron Council. Mutilate and combat both lose a bit too much time running back in after AE.

Regarding Mavanas: I really hope is sim isn't modeling HAT properly. For it to be 1k over combat and mutilate is...irritating.

[Almehym]

There still may be bugs to get worked out; just recently there was a problem with wound poison that put combat about 400 dps lower than mutilate. With it fixed, it was brought almost exactly in line (not counting Murder, I'm pretty sure).

Most likely it'll just be runspeed to boots for spec interchangeability.

If sstep means 1% more time on target, it'll definitely be worth it to move a point from aggression to it. My guess is until encounters get optimized and on farm, it may very well be more effective to do so.

Edit: Aldriana updated his spreadsheets. Given his track record, I'll trust his numbers to be a tad more accurate than the simcraft numbers. Combat still looks to be ahead by some. New Spreadsheets for Combat and Mutilate (http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t39136-combat_mutilate_spreadsheets_updated_3_1_a/p11/#post1192677)