Executioner vs. Mongoose

[Punkrocker]

Not sure how many of you have been following this thread, but there's some good information on the proc rates and relative effectiveness for not only the rogue class but also for warriors and shaman. This is pve centric for the most part.

http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t17078-raid_executioner_vs_mongoose_preliminary_numbers/


Aldriana was able to gather a good set of data showing that mongoose isn't 1ppm. It appears, from the data gathered so far, that the proc rate is about the same for both executioner and mongoose. There is still some debate as to whether executioner mh and mongoose oh is better for rogues than mongoose/mongoose. From the preliminary numbers it looks damned close, with mongoose POSSIBLY being slightly higher dps due to the ap gain we get that other classes do not.

I wouldn't go out and re-enchant your mainhands just yet. I put executioner on my mh over the mongoose, should have saved the mats I think. I'm not going to worry about putting mongoose back on the mainhand as the difference in dps, if indeed it's found that mongoose/mongoose is better for rogues, will probably be negligible.

Executioner looks like the top choice for warriors on both (I think Hardcore already swapped over) and possibly for shaman as well.

[Xyebane]

It is my understanding that bosses have a base 25% physical dmg reduction due to armor.

I dont know the exact number but i think this puts most bosses at ~4k armor.

With Sunder, Faerie fire, this reduces armor by 3210, CoR reduces it by 4010 total.

Hmmm... Let me do more research.

[Xyebane]

Upon further study most bosses appear to have either 6200 for light armored bosses, 7700 thousand for regular bosses or 8800 for heavy armored bosses.

This means if you can hit 2190 armor pen from items, you will reduce the bosses armor to 0 vs light armored bosses (all hyjal, mother, teron, council).

Dunno what our melee is sitting at but exec makes up a large chunk of that.

[Xyebane]

Also remember that armor pen is most effective at that critical level where as mongoose is a pretty static % dps boost.

2190, 3690, 4790 are the 'optimum' Armor pen numbers for the various bosses, and the closer you are to those numbers the more effective armor pen is point for point.

Makes armor pen kinda a difficult stat to compare.

[Ceres]

Fusion almost never uses COR.

This makes Mongoose a little more attractive (armor pen. gets more effective the more of it you have already, up to the point where armor pen = total mob armor at which point adding more does nothing)

[sentaris]

I'm still not sold on Executioner/Mongoose over dual Mongoose for shaman. Of the times I've used Executioner in BT/Hyjal my dps seemed lower than usual, though I didn't have any logs of it.

[Thelastrace]

Here is a link for the assumed armor for all the end game bosses:
http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html;jsessionid=A221D7A0FEBC61D78B93ED22803 603F8.app09_05?topicId=1153438882&sid=1

It also as some good ideas about the effectiveness on certain ignore armor stages.

[Punkrocker]

Stacking armor pen at the expense of other stats is a dubious prospect at best for rogues. With the current hemo it's a bit more viable if you do the tri-spec build because you pick up serrated blades (560 armor pen). You can sacrifice some hit with this build but hitting 2190 isn't going to be easy. I think I calculated that I was sitting just shy of 1800 or so armor pen (1780 sticks in my head, but that may not be 100% correct) in my pvp gear with executioner running, but that's definitely not optimal for a raid situation since I lose other critical stats.

Executioner might be better if we start seeing more raid gear with armor pen on it, but until then I think double mongoose for rogues might be slightly better in pve.

[Xyebane]

Well i know druids its possible to get 1217 without sacrificing too much, and thats without mongoose. (Neck, both Rings, Trinket, pants, weapon). Mongoose would put us just under 200 shy of ideal for lower armor bosses.

Of course i doubt its worth it on heavy armored or even medium armored bosses to sacrifice other stats for pen.

Unless of course you want to brag about how you got full penetration on mother shaz

[Wigeon]

I'll be honest that I haven't looked anywhere personally, but is Exec beneficial on MH in PvP? I understand this post relates to PvE fairly exclusively, but I was curious on your opinions, or if you could point me in the right direction for reading materials. Thanks.

-Warbler

[Draugr]

For a warrior it's pretty good, aye. Much better than mongoose atleast